I think this wish has been semi-mentioned inside other wishes, but I wanted it to stand out on its own. A full 64-bit build is a must-have in the near future. Everyone who has bought a Windows system in the past 2 years has now 64-bit hardware. The advent of Windows7 might push everyone there over to using a 64-bit OS. 32-bit OS's/apps will not be around for much longer. Having access to more memory is worth alone the price of admission. We will soon need a native 64-bit PT build.
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(latest 20 votes)
Similar Ideas Show
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Status Changed from Active to In Progress2 months ago
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The Idea titled 64 bit support for Using virtual instruments was merged with this Idea1 year ago
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An idea (removed by a Moderator) was merged with this Idea1 year ago
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The Idea titled 64 Bit ProTools was merged with this Idea1 year ago
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The Idea titled 64bit NOW! was merged with this Idea1 year ago
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An idea (removed by a Moderator) was merged with this Idea3 years ago
Attachments
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Markeyse Mundy attached: Screen-shot-2011-07-16-at-08.27.35.png
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Gratten Darmody attached: hhhture.jpeg
sort of a wank posting a certain bet odds on idea is worth 121 your right but if your idea wins the bets not paying out because the punters have you sussed
Comments (131)
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Hhmm... I certainly hope so. Keep in mind that "compatibility with the 64-bit version" doesn't necessarily mean a 64-bit build. A 64-bit OS is capable of running 32-bit applications... so this could be "making sure our 32-bit PT runs on a 64-bit OS without problems". I hope you're right though...
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I have talk to the reps a few months back and he said that they are working on it. I'm not sure if it is this one though. Pro Tools all around is really still 32 bit if it is on Mac or Windows. With Microsoft saying that Windows 7 will be their last OS that will have a 32 bit sku, maybe everyone will make solely native 64 bit programs.
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A 64 Bit Pro Tools System is something that is mentioned quite a lot on forums. Also, an idea for the older PCI-X cards installed into a G4/G5 computer. Could the DAE on the old computer be accessed remotely on a more modern computer whereby it's taking the CPU load of the RTAS Plug-ins from the G4/G5.The TDM plugins will be taken care of from the HD Accell cards. A lot of us have all this extra engine underneath the bonnet (e.g. MacPro) but are unable to use it due to the products costing too much money to upgrade for years to come. Some of us are changing over to AU and lightpiping into ProTools.....stop this trend and make it happen! Also, it's a little more complicated than it should be.
OR, for the older HD PCI-X (not PCIe), have a reasonably priced External Chassis starting off with a 3 off PCI-X to PCIe Expansion Chassis. Price range of between £300 - £600 would be reasonable. Not £1200 +
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Even though (most) 32-bit apps can run on a 64-bit system, the main reason a 64-bit build would be better is that it could access the entire memory space of the computer.
Since more and more software synth plugins are becoming popular, it would be good if these could use more memory space in which to map the samples/etc.
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I believe that it's about time Pro Tools joins the 64bit band wagon.... Pro Tools is still limited due to it being only 32bit. 64 bit pro tools 8 will enable us professional engineers to get the most out of our >$6,000 mac pro's. Seriously.. i would have thought after being around for so long that Avid/Digidesign would have anticipated and fixed this problem by now.. please fix this ASAP, because it really is getting a bit on my nerves that i can't utilize all 8 of my cores and 32gb's of RAM efficiently. And i'm damn sure hundred of Pro Tools Operators can agree with me on this one. thank you.
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Yeah just so you get a better illustration of why this won't happen, remember that even if they deliver an offer great support for a great line of products, Digidesign is still in the profit making business.
If they enable 64-bit support, they'd actually be cannibalizing their whole HD line since"massive processing power" is what you're actually paying for when you buy HD (PCIe Cards and all).
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I was just coming on to make the same observation: To utilize 64-bit would be to render pointless their whole HD line. Poor fellas started a line of products that made more sense in the olden days of computers, but is now obsolete. I imagine the thing that would have to happen FIRST is an entire strip down and rebuild of their product line...but the to do THAT would just alienate all their high-paying HD customers. So yeah, probably NOT gonna happen cos they're too far down this hole.
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Just thought I'd add a point. A MBP is the roughly the same processing weight of 2 HD cards by itself, nevermind a Mac Pro. You don't really invest 10k for "more processing", you invest it for delay compensation (although this would be nice for LE), voice-sharing, and low-latency monitoring. Low-latency monitoring is the biggest difference maker and would never change as long as a buffer is necessary in host programs.
I agree with the post, but wonder about the rebuild of DAE.
Digressing...
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Jordan, coding in 64bit is very time consuming. I'm sure Avid is working on it, but they would want to make sure that it is ready first. I did some light coding some years ago, and I can tell you it was no easy job. Imagine converting everything to a new code and having it work the same way. Pro Tools have years of coding and tools, and I'm sure version 9 will come out with the request.
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I love Pro Tools and would love to move to Pro Tools 9, but until it becomes a 64-bit application it's not an upgrade for me.
I understand the slow move to an open architecture with as much hardware they must have on hand to sell, but now that they have, it seems like 64-bit is the next big thing they could unveil. NAMM is in January - that would be a great time for AVID to build some more momentum:)
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AVID PROTOOL !S for the Love of GOD you have to have realized by now that Having a supercomputer for god sakes is WORTHLESS with Pro tools I use pro tools for Production But bounce all to wave and open In reaper wich is so annoying cause your damn DAW aint a 64 bit build PLEAAASE i love pro tools please please do this already EVERYONE ELSE HAS!!!
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Seriously, what happened to being AHEAD with this company? All I see is people posting about features that other programs already have.
When PT 9 was released all I saw was AVID brag about giving us features other programs already had?
Why is AVID so slow right now?
It looks like the customer culture in regards to Pro Tools continues to be easily described with one word - frustrated.
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Just to Confirm for those who dont know We have a 64-bit "Supported" version of pro tools 9 NOT a 64-bit Build Pro tools! We dont just want to use it on a 64 bit Platform WE WANT TO ACCESS ALL OUR RAM!Jeez Avid what ever happened to the customer, All I ever see on this Idea scale are Tons Of ideas Most EVERY other DAW already Has !!! Please, please, Keep your Initial Promise. Listen To Us. This isn't anything new. Dont believe me? Ask Every other DAW. Maybe they can Enlighten you on how to make that happen.
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Yes we do need a 64 bit build. But dont pull this "avid what happend to the customer". Since digi officially became avid, they have given us plenty. Protools 9, which includes ADC, more tracks than you'd need for the average user, and they have given me support when i needed it where digi would not have. Give em a break, i'm sure its their next priority.
Keep it up Avid
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I completely Agree with you, BUT you also need to recognize, Almost "EVERY" Other Major DAW has this already...This isn't anything Foreign, It's a very common thing that I'm almost 100 Percent sure Avid can get done easily. So tell me this... This Idea was submitted A year Ago.. PT9 just came out...why we dont have it???? ..Yeah I don't know either. Giving you true support would be giving you full access to the ram you bought.
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Pro Tools is twice the age or more of those other programs. yes it needs a ground up recode to get rid of it limitations.
this takes time and resources that there are a finite amount of in any company and lately most of them have gone to Media Composer that needed an overhaul more that Pro Tools.
9 looks like the resources are flowing more to Pro Tools now but who of us really knows.
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I want to vote more than once on this!! Avid, you've gotta step it up here. Logic looks more appealing with every day that goes by that PT is not 64 bit (and so unstable.)
Love you though.
Craig, Media Composer may have needed an update but I don't use that software. PT needs to get with it.
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I fully agree with Nick Dudar. Avid has really been pulling all the stops this year. Some of you guys just have to chill out! Avid has been keeping their promise so far and I believe they wouldint want to break that.
I want 64-bits like the next guy as well, but it takes time to write a program in 64-bits. That is double than 32-bit code so what does that tells you? It will take DOUBLE the time to make it happen. Just ask developers what happend when we started getting multicore support. Now you have to write parallel code,which was no easy feat.
You also have to look at Avid like you do Microsoft. Their product is the most widely used, so I'm sure they will have to make sure everything is ok with 64-Bit before flipping the switch to release it. If not, the majority of you guys will complain. Most of you guys will complain anyway since most of you probably don't have your motherboard in AHCI mode. I'll change that first before complaining about 64-Bit.
Also just when Pro Tools does go 64-bit. That doesn't mean the plugins and VI from third parties will automatically become 64bit. Most likely Avid will have to make a bridge to make things work like Apple did with Logic(http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3989). Everyone will also have to get on the same page with that. We have Celemony with Melodyne. Now just need everyone else.
Lastly, if 64-Bit REALLY is important to you guys, it will be #1 on Ideascale. It is currently #5 with 412 votes and counting. You guys wanted ADC, now you have that (5905 votes in about 5 months). and now the majority of you guys want the "Freeze Track" feature, with 995 votes and counting. That is the most important to everyone. I think that it is more of a crutch, because that just says that we still want to stay in the 32-bit era. For all of your suppose "Supercomputers", you won't need a freeze track if you have 24GB of RAM loaded in. Also, 64-bit won't just add RAM. You have to look at better effecientcy with your CPU and the new SSDs, as well as bigger Hard drives (3TB and over). And not to add it will most likely run better with the new, unannounced TDM cards.
All and all, if you watch the press conference, Avid said they're working on the next five top ideas, 64-Bit being included I'm sure. I'm going on the books that we can see some type of 64-Bit goodness next year. Now, vote more on 64-Bits!
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When 64-bits do happen, we can do things like have GPU Acceleration (http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Graphics-GPU-Accelerated/12654-3779), that can take over graphical chores, process Quicktime Videos, and even have more dynamic skins on plugins, while still freeing up resources from the CPU to use more towards mixing, automations, ADC, etc.
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When PT 64 bit comes out, I'm sure they will have a new line of HD card to go with it. Just think about it a moment. Would they really release a version of PT that wouldn't be compatible with the HD sector?
So all in all they not only have to redo the code for PT, but they have to do a full rebuild of the HD card to be able to have 64 bit dsps. So there's a lot that goes behind oh just get the 64 bit done already. All the other company out there don't offer a HD line with all the gear that Avid purchased from DIGI. Think about this a moment. The bread and butter of PT is HD, not LE.
So when we see a new pT build for 64 bit, we'll see (I'm pretty sure and hope) a full new line of 64 bit hardware to go with it.
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Lol, maybe not. PT has always had good line up for non hd users too. SO I wouldn't see this change. For those who already have HD, why would that be bad at all. The possibility to go to a newer dsp cards finally with more power for them and for the application itself with more ram support. I sure am one who would love to see that happen.
Beside, which daw out there would be able to top a new 64 bild + new HD dsp cards line?
:P
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So far the "new avid" looks just like the old Digi, it's a very discouraging time for PT users.
PT 9 saw NO innovation just regurgitation. Are we supposed to be exited about having paid money for features everyone else already had?
So far Avid has shown no promise when it comes to Pro Tools and all these missing features in 2011, well it just makes things feel bleek. So behind in terms of using modern computers, so many little bugs and annoying GUI things, I don't know whats to be excited about anymore.
At it's core Pro Tools continues to be the best and it can't be rivaled in editing but I'm not sure how much longer this product can survive on it's past laurels.
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@Lex-4321, I totally aagree.
@ Community Member, what Avid haven't done that say they aren't trying!? Sorry but I have to comment on this post. They have released a myrid of new features, came out with some new clean interfaces, as well as rejuvenated Three of their platforms (Media Composer, Pro Tools, Torq). That is a lot of work, coding, and testing. Of coarse we all want 64-bit, but saying that they aren't coming out with new stuff is just premature. They'll release it when they are ready. I'm positive they are probably testing code right now. Just give them time.
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People wish things fed to them right away, they forget how much time and effort goes into the back ground to make things. Even what has been release in the last Year was a major step in the way and they have released a lot of things for PT. The new native cards, the new omnis, eleven racks etc. They have come out with PT9 and started working on the compatibility for 64 bit, and now most likely are already working on a full 64 bit application.
You should really take a step back and look at the whole thing. Even their acquisition of Euphonix and already working on PC compatible drivers is a big thing.
let's remember that Avid officially bought Digidesign in april 2010, that's not even a year yet and look at all they have done.
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"all they have done" = fixing a sinking old ship? Look at Nokia "that wouldn't change". If you do not redesign every 18th month - YOU DIE! (or become one sixth of the size you were, in just one year! Avid can beat that..)
Bling Bling does not help, when *performance* and *stability* is what the masses cry for! We want to make, and produce music, not exploring every 'new' function, blinding people's eyes, after every "new" "release". 'panem et circenses' is what that is called (yeah - google it).
Unleash the much needed Changes now!
Idea: Wouldn't it be nice to Rewire the 64bit Reaper (or any other 64bit system) in the older 32bit reactionary Pro Tools. That could be something Avid could strive for.
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Right thanks, conflicting information here lol. And you are absolutely right. Although until last year, even though digidesign belonged to Avid, they were still a different entity which is where I mixed up. until last year digi worked by it's own until they were merged with the other teams.
Anyhow, a full fledged revamp of a program is not going to be done in a year
Logic pro 9.1 is still not fully 64 bit as a lot of the add-ons cannot work in 64 bit mode.
support(.)apple(.)com/kb/TS3171
Cubase 6 which is the first fully 64 bit support version of cubase was only release on the 15 of January 2011
The only fully 64 bit daw that I know of prior to cubase 6, was released in 2007 and was nuendo 4.
So really, what are you all complaining about that PT is soooooo00oo far behind all the others. It's biggest competitor may be 64 bit supported but a lot of it's functionalities do not function in 64 bit.
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People use Ableton to DJ and perform Live. Try using Pro Tools for that type of work and see how that audience is going to respond when the program crashes on you.
Ultimate stability and performance is in itself innovative. We're not just talking about new and might I add necessary enhancements, we're talking about a solid program. Have you used the browsers in Logic and Ableton? Then have you gone back to use the Workspace in Pro Tools? There are missing features in Pro Tools that are unacceptable and there's is no reason anyone here should be making excuses for Avid. I don't know about you but when I invest over $10,000 in my DAW I want to look at the OTHER programs and see missing features not my own.
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Have you even read what you wrote??
"People use Ableton to DJ and perform Live. Try using Pro Tools for that type of work and see how that audience is going to respond when the program crashes on you."
PT is not meant to be used as a DJ platform.. It's a Digital audio Workstation for recording. RECORDING.. and of course editing.
You want to DJ, us a program that specializes in DJing. Don't be an ars about it when you use PT for something other than it's been made for and then comes to the conclusion it's not working for that. Of course it's not, because it's not made to be that.
And then you wonder why Avid came out with a DJ software, but then a lot of people complained about it instead of them getting an other version of PT out. It's due to people using PT in ways that it's not meant to be used.
So what that you can use Ableton to DJ.. it sure doesn't make it a better program than PT for Recording and Editing.
Would you use a Ferrari to pull a 10 tone trailer? Or would you use the appropriate Truck to do it?
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I haven't had a Pro Tools system crash on me in almost a year. And that is including Mac and Windows. Pro Tools, while you might can use as "part" of a DJ system, that isn't really what it is for. Most people that say PT crashes, either have some Nvidia chipset, have a slow drive, or didn't set their systems like Avid recommended.
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I believe Avid understands this and must be working on 64-bit code as a highest priority. It will be "game over" for any 32-bit DAW in the very near future.
Look at one current VI product like NI Abbey Road Drums. A single RTAS instantiation can quickly eat 2+ GB of the 4GB session space all by itself (buffer dependent). NI has addressed this by offering a Kontakt memory server that runs in its own 4GB space, but from their documentation it appears they intend this really as a stop-gap until 32-bit support is no longer needed.
I'm currently slamming a 12GB Mac Pro / Pro Tools rig with the DAW and one or more memory servers running in parallel; I'm very close to upgrading to 24GB, knowing that for now I'll need to run some serious workarounds to make use of the space.
Prediction: we'll see 64-bit Pro Tools this year. We have to.
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I am currently using Memory Servers from both NI and Spectrsonics to get past the memory limitations of a 32bit Pro Tools. I LOVE PT 9, but I've been forced to work with the inconsistencies of the memory servers or even (gasp!) Reaper to host my sample based libraries. This is not sustainable for me - and I end up having to debug the patchwork before I can get on with why am use Pro Tools. I just want to use my beloved Pro Tools its 64bit Native footprint, running all my VI plugs natively 64bit.
I agree with above - this HAS to be unleashed THIS YEAR - 2011.
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I understood you were talking of the stability of the dj software of ableton's to do what it does. But that's like comparing cherries with bananas. The two programs have a total different use and mind set for them. Even though you can Use PT for live, it's not meant to be that exactly. Even if the dj software is more stable, would you be able to use it as a daw? Get what I mean?
Two different things that can't compared one to an other in the settings you placed the programs for comparison.
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I've been a Pro Tools user for 15 years. Have always loved the program and never even thought about another DAW.
A couple months ago I got a new Mac Pro (trying to at lesat make Native PT at least a bit more powerful). Anyways, I got a Mac Pro 12 Core 64GB Ram 4 SSD's, etc, etc
Pro Tools is unstable and completely ancient as ever.
For the first time in my life- I'm switching DAW's. Just ordered Logic 9 and now have to learn how to use the fricken thing.
I'm done waiting for Avid- they've been "working" on it for years and will be "working" on it for years to come.
They are SOOOOOOO far behind both other DAW's and the computers their software runs on- pathetic.
I'm not holdin' my breath anymore. And yes, as some of the posters above said, the memory servers blow.
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LEX- the bottom line is:
Pro Tools is a DAW- have you ever seen them advertise their product being mainly for editing and recording? Of course not. They even make their own VI's, etc.
If you've really used the program a lot and run medium to large size sessions, you'd have all the frustrations all these other users have as well. There' a reason this is number 3 ranked. We're all not just making this up.
If you're running two tracks w/ one plugin, yeah, I'm sure PT runs great! Yipee! We live in an age with sample libraries from East West and other that are over 200GB's.
Pro Tools doesn't stand a chance- not even the smallest, tiniest chance, at being able to handle what's available today and MOST DEF what will be avail tomorrow.
If I had to guess- it's gonna be another 2 to 5 years for 64 bit- if ever. Don't get me wrong- I hope I'm way off on that. I wish it was avail now.
But I've wished that for too long and I'm over it. Thought I'd vent here before I move on to Logic: a program made by a company who doesn't still deliver mail by horseback.
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I've used Protools since the first version came out. I've been in the business since back in the analog tapes. So please don't come and say. If you've really used. I use pro tools 9 hours per day, every day beside Sundays. So I can say that I'm well versed in it.
I have over 500 gb of samples libraries for east wast, NI, and Wave Gold bundle, toon track etc.
And you know what? I have to move to a HD system for my personal projects because I'm reaching the track capabilities and instruments counts. But I rewire my VI's through VE pro so I don't get bitten by the 4 gig block of PT at this time.
I'm going to say this plain and simple. Unlimited tracks Is useless, Unlimited I/O is glitter in the eye, 64 bit would be obviously a good thing, but we can work around it for the moment until they get a version that is tested and stable. And wont do like Logic, Cubase or Nuendo and be a junk of bugs that takes over two years to get fixed.
In the last five years I can count on one hand with cutting 3 fingers how many crash I had. So that tells -me- something and a lot of other people who actually work every day as their career with Pro tools. It is stable.
Remember that Apple is now the ones who owns Logic, they are not the one who made it. And a lot of people have been complaining of multitude of bugs that crept up and haven't been fixed since Apple took over. Worst, you're stuck with an apple to use it. And if you want to speak of 64 bit? Go ahead, Logic isn't even fully 64 bit as 3/4 of it's component can't work in 64 bit mode. So you'll have to switch from 64 to 32 if you want to use those.
So yeah you can complain and whine all you want, it doesn't change the facts that PT is still the standard for good reasons. It's stable, it doesn't give you blingbling just to bait you in buying it.
In my 17 years experience as a professional audio engineer, mixer and producer and composer, I have never seen someone be limited with I/O in studios because those that are pro's actually knows what I am talking about and knows how to actually work. And even if you record a full band at once, you still wont reach the maximum simultaneous I/O.
So hey, no one is holding a gun over your head saying you have to stay with PT. If you're tired of a company that is taking it's time to put out a quality product that wont be butchered up from the get go, that's you're problem. I and many others on the other hands seems to be just fine with that.
Sure we would like to see 64 bit as soon as possible, but not at the cost of Quality. So good luck and stop whining.
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Very well stated Lex, and why I too have been loyal to Pro Tools. My hope is that because technology seems to be changing much more rapidly, the need for and availability of 64-bit solutions will follow suit. Ever-decreasing RAM prices, 2nd-gen SSD and now Thunderbolt are catalysts for this.
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Yep, but at the same time, as a business stand point. IT would be useless for PT to put out their 64 bit version if the following are not ready.
-New line of HD gear for the studios
-A vast majority of the propriatary plug ins and third party plug ins have been rewritten in 64 bit.
What we do know is that they do have a prototype for a thunderbolt interface, seen it on a video for the idf of 2101
So they are already working at that. Now I'm hoping they are also working on a new DSP system that would utilize this technology. But at this time I think the PCI Express buss is still faster than Thunderbolt.
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Maybe they'll go 64 bit when everyone starts posting on this thread that they've moved on.
I just got Logic in the mail...read Colplay, Radiohead, The Killers, etc swear by it. I cannot believe after using PT for a decade and a half I have to learn a new DAW from scratch!
Anyways- I absoutely cannot wait till a couple weeks from now after tons of books and tutorials and I'm flowing in a 64 bit DAW w/ all the RAM in my Mac Pro (64GB). Ahhhhhhh..
Since asking for 64 bit isn't doing anything (it's been years now)....might as well try something else. You can Logic on Ebay or Amazon for pretty cheap.
Goodbye PT- at least till there's 64bit (which is either never or more likely a couple years)- and that's if I've not fallen in love w/ Logic 9 like so many others.
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CM, I have talk to the reps last week at RSPE, and they are working on 64-bit. It takes time. I have done some programming and even simple stuff can take weeks. I find it silly just to base one feature to move on. Pro Tools is rock stable right now, and I wouldn't move and risk compatibility with other. Logic isn't even fully 64-bit yet, and just because your "RAM" isn't being used, you should check your usage because you might not be using it all anyway.
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Hey there-
Trust me it's all set up right- been doing this for a living for a looonnngggg time.
And this "one feature" is not exactly something like better color coding for markers, etc....
Look at all the comments above mine. I read one guys' post on this thread who's in the same boat as I am: bought the fastest Mac Pro you can buy, RAM, SSD's, etc....
None of this matters. As long as PT is 32bit it will act the same as it did in a computer from years ago. Make no difference other than a very, very, VERY slight CPU RTAS difference (which is still atrocious at best).
Believe me- it's not like I'm happy about this nor do I even want to do it. I simply have to.
As far as Logic- I've seen it's capabilities and it is so far beyond Pro Tools it's ridiculous. Yes, every plug is not 64 bit- but they will still run in a 64 bit environment, just as PT does. And actually, quite a few are...Spectrasonics is one I use a lot.
And by the way- I too talked to the reps a couple weeks ago, as well as a year ago, and a year and half ago. The answer is always the same: "Were working' on it."
Lastly, PT is absolutely NOT rock stable. Not even close. I mean, sure it is when you've got 2GB RAM worth of stuff going- BUT THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD!!!!!!
A few GB of RAM in a DAW in this day in age w/ the computers and ssd's and ram that are available is absurd.
Avid/Digi have always been slow to update- but this really takes the cake.
And what I find so ironic, is that they obviously regcognize the power of the modern pc by releasing PT Native. Hello????
Anyways, enough whining. Just frustrated- glad to be done w/ this nonsense and enjoy the freedom of both a 64 bit DAW and not having to think about how much longer is Avid gonna take....
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Hey Markeyse Mundy -
I was browsing this forum and happened across one of your posts! What a coincidence!
You were telling a well informed PT user who was talking about Core Audio drivers (and Avid/DIGI) even chimed in to validate his post!!!!! WOW)...anyways you were telling him that he very well may not have optimized his computer, etc.
Please realize this:
A lot of us on here have been PT users for well over a decade. We obviously know what we're doing when it comes to optimizing a Mac/PC for PT. This is very, very introductory stuff that you learn in the beginning and it stays with you-
I'm not even going to begin to ponder why you cruise this forum telling people "check their usage" "optimize their computer."-- Especially in this thread and the other one you posted in.
When you tell experienced producers and engineers- (people who do this for a living and rely on DAWs) to "optimize their computer" it can come off condescending because it IS so simple and introductory.
While I don't think you meant it that way (no malice or forethought), I do think you should Think before you Post.
Thanks.
p.s. the thread I'm referring to that I saw you on was 'Stable Native Core Audio Support for 002/003/HD --something like that
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Actually no, not every plug in of Logic will run under 64 bit mode. Apple even states that to use those plug ins you will have to switch to 32 bit mode as they will simply not launch under 64 bit mode.
And well, as I wrote before I've been using PT for God knows how long, started before mix 24 was even out! And even today I'm still running with my 4 gb ram for PT, rewiring my VI's through VE pro, and still am able to load up ridiculous amount of Rtas and not have PT crash on me. 2 crash in 5 years.. That's pretty stable I would say.
So come on guys, there's better things to worry about in life, as well making better mix with what's presently available, we can always get better in that, than to worry about PT going 64 bit.
Heck none of my clients have ever complained that my mix sounded wrong because I was still using PT that isn't 64 bit. Get what I mean?
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You've said this twice now, Lex:
"2 PT Crashes in 5 years"
I'll believe in Santa before I believe that. I don't know what else to say than that is just an outright lie. EVERYBODY- HD users incuded, experiences crashes in PT- and I don't mean once every 2 or 3 years. What a ridiculous statement.
Also, what are yo doing? You don't want 64 bit? Or your defending 32 bit os ok? If it's ok, then why are you on here?
Maybe you should start a thread asking for Avid to move PT down to 16 bit w/ 2GB RAM ceiling (or whatever that is).
Lastly, are you deleting your previous comments or are the Avid Moderators? Just curious....there's no reason whatsoever for you to be on this thread. It's not titled "STAY 32 BIT FOREVER AND REASONS WHY"
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First of you don't know me, so saying it's a lie is like saying that a cat doesn't like olives because you haven't seen one eat one avidly. And yes, I haven't had more than 2 PT crash in the last 5 years. Stable system, stable PT and knowing how to work usually gets you that results.
I'm not saying I don't want a 64 bit PT, else I wouldn't have voted for it. I'm saying that it's not worth bursting a blood vein over it, when there is work around that are available.
Actually I just noticed that some are highlighted red but I don't remember deleting them myself unless it was to correct some grammar as there is no edit button available.
And I'm like any other guy, I wish for a PT 64 bit, but unlike a lot of you, I don't throw a tantrum because things don't move fast enough for your tastes. Some of you look like kids in a candy store that can't have the candy they want. What I don't want is a rushed version of PT 64 bit, that has 1/9th of it's capabilities because third parties plug in manufacturer haven't recoded their plug ins to work in 64 bit. Or that the program crashes every 5 minutes of use. Basically I want a quality product, and I'm willing to chill out until it comes out as such, with an actual line of HD gear that goes with it. Capiche?
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Wow lol this got crazy.
Well CM I'm not sure where you are starting a rampage here, but I have been opening up computers and messing with them since I was about 11 years. That is almost 15 just for computers alone. I have an extensive background in computers, and I have even done some light programming a few years back. I now have been doing Pro Audio for about six years. So it is a little premature that you are judging me. It doesn't matter if the person had been a recording engineer a long time, they might not be the biggest computer person. Heck, I goof from time to time. I am still human afterall.
I'm the kind of person that shares info. Maybe a person forgot to press that "one button", and you might of reminded them and saved the day. Point I making is that this is a community where we share info and get together and try to problem solve. There isn't any hard feeling here from me, but please don't try and start some fights here man. Lets get back to the subject at hand guys ok. Now back to 64-bits...
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This whole thread is an endless bobble going nowhere fast. I just have to sit back, shake my head and laugh.
People just assume switching to 64bit is a piece-of-cake painless process. Could digi do it quick? Probably. Should they? No. Point-in-case - look at Logic Pro... half the stuff I need doesn't even work in 64bit most because they'll deal with it later. The bridge is wonky - it's a sloppy release.
People are also going on and on about how a 64bit release would potentially HD sales and thats why digi wont do it.. wrong.. ie. Hello it's native already??? If you need the scalable I/O and near zero latency - get HD. If you're working alone with the odd singer/solo instruments - go native. Easy.
2 important notes when knocking HD systems..
1) It is 'older' at this point, but it's also very mature. I can stand by it and it WORKS. What else can give you that much reliable I/O? The symphony system sure.. but it's almost the same money for mega I/O - and the maestro mixer SUCKS.. it's not there yet.
2) Don't forget there's tens of thousands of Pro studios world-wide with HD stuff in their facilities - you can't just flip 64bit and either render that stuff unusable or buggy - that's just asking for a firestorm as we rely on this stuff everyday to make an income.
I'm all for a 64 bit PT app - but only when it's done, tested, stable and works.
Otherwise, NOT INTERESTED.
If you're doing extensive MIDI work in PT (my first question be why?)) - but whatever - you should be re-wiring using Bidule, running VE-PRO or using external sampler computers. That's what most composers do - even with Logic, DP etc. The workaround is there, it's easy and makes switching sessions less of a pain because everything is loaded separately and is just sitting there ready to go.
I work with PT and Logic everyday, 12-14hrs a day for work.. so I don't think my viewpoint is that far-off base.... even if I am a tad insane :)
Cheers,
Neil
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Neil, I can offer one answer 'why' regarding MIDI - next to Studio Vision it's my favorite MIDI environment, even after working with DP and Logic. I prefer its linear integration alongside PT audio in the timeline, and the UI improvements in PT9 are more than adequate for my needs. It's all personal preference really.
64-bit is not an HD versus Native issue. The memory server scenario that I and another poster mentioned above are independent of this.
Like you, I will be interested in 64-bit PT only when it's ready, and I still believe Avid / Digi are working on this as a high priority.
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I'd imagine that it's because you already can do that with soloing the track and aux you want to use and bounce the whole track then import it back. That does exactly the same thing as print to track. Also you could use audio suite plugs if you have the right plug ins for it. Which again does the same as print to track.
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Just as shady as some people have been abusing the flagging system to try and delete the post of others that they didn't agree with or felt was destroying their ideas a bit too much... eh CM?
If you look all my post are back, because after contacting the mod team they told me about the false flagging.
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"and now the majority of you guys want the "Freeze Track" feature.... I think that it is more of a crutch, because that just says that we still want to stay in the 32-bit era. For all of your suppose "Supercomputers", you won't need a freeze track if you have 24GB of RAM loaded in. Also, 64-bit won't just add RAM."
Exactly the opposite...you won't need much at all, no supercomputers, no 64 bit, if your plugins are deactivated and your running pure audio, having rendered all tracks.
"Realize the only plugins needing to be active is the one you're currently adjusting & those affected by it...all others should be quickly, seamlessly and automatically background rendered into audio. Now dust off your G5s."
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Exactly. No need for 64-bit=we won't get it. Besides think about it. Most people that spent $7k-10k on a Mac Pro Wants to actually use the thing. Every computer manufacture is going with a 64-bit OS. If you have a new computer, guess what, it has 64-bits on it.
Besides, when DAWs wasn't big, we didn't have the option to "FREEZE" tracks, and I might need to unfreeze it to make an edit. I rather leave the plug active, and be more efficent on my mixing.
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So, with magic 64 bit we'll never run out of CPU power? Dream on. The ONLY way to never run out of CPU power is when all tracks are "quickly, seamlessly and automatically background rendered into audio."
And how is ABR (auto background rendering) going to slow you down when the the rendering is seamless and invisible and the return is instantaneous and invisible to the user, as if the track were never rendered into audio in the first place?
This is technically feasible. We need to get out of the present 25 year old paradigms and move to intelligent software design finally instead of brute force based design.
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With ABR (auto background rendering) you don't need massive RAM, expensive 8 core computers, external DSP...none of all that nonsense of brawn. You need brains...a smart, open-minded software developer that realizes the only way to totally solve the DSP problem is by running sessions that are 90%+ plugin-free audio tracks. Remember, ABR needs to be totally invisible to the user...as if there are 300+ tracks loaded with active plugins, ready to be instantly adjusted at any time.
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@neve73, I've never said you will run out of power, but I think more people rather work in realtime,especially since Pro Tools is a Real Time engine. And just because you render in the background, doesn't mean that you don't need more RAM while you're working. In fact, that can even need more if you are rendering AND mixing/editing at the same time. Where do you think all the info goes when the processor sends/retrieves data? YOUR RAM! RAM is very important, and the more of it you have, the better off you are. Nothing is really "invisible" to the processor or the user (I know what feature it is right?). It has to crunch numbers, and you can't get around that as much as you think you can.
Also you are saying get out of 25 years of work? Have Pro Tools even been around that long (The answer is no, it has been 10 years)!? 64-bit is still relivetively new, and requiring new code to right, and maybe incorporate your "Freeze Track" idea.
And running plugin free audio!? What if I need to change something? I can't tell my client to "oh wait let me unfreeze, fix, and rerender the track, give me about 5 mins". Those people want that project done yesterday and they have no time on any shenanigans. So Realtime is how I role, and I won't use freeze time much if was included. Not to say it is a bad Idea, but More RAM and CPU is cheaper than a second and third computer. You get my drift?
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Just read an announcement for Propellerhead Reason 6, and it will be 64-bit ( http://www.propellerheads.se/reason6/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=FAQ ). It is starting guys, and software is finally being programed for 64-bits.
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64 bit is a crucial step. But it's only half the picture. I tried switching to Logic, partly because it's 64 bit. But I still had problems with big projects because of the number of CPU cycles they used. Yes, I could load lots of samples and tracks within the DAW, but when I went to mix them or submix even portions of them, my 3GHz 8-core Mac Pro choked. RAM wasn't maxed, it was the CPU cores. Even with lots of tracks frozen.
When you're working on a string arrangement, for example, with big sample libraries, you can't always freeze each track as you go. You need to be able to work on several instruments at once. And even Logic at 64 bit, which is also way more efficient with plugs than Pro Tools, had trouble.
So when Pro Tools comes out as a 64 bit app, don't be surprised if you still have issues. Plugs are getting more and more CPU-intensive, even for today's pro computers.
With increased RAM usage comes increased CPU cycles, and we need solutions that address both.
I'd like to see an RTAS DSP accelerator card option, one that can be added to ANY version of Pro Tools. Like UAD2 but for any RTAS plugs. Avid would make a mint. And yes, RTAS needs to be coded more efficiently, but that won't be enough.
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I agree with CM above. It won't be perfect at first, and everything will still have to be optimized. CM you should check out my post on new cards. http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/2nd-Generation-HD-Accel-Cards--FPGA-DSP-Hybrid-/79912-3779
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Read this. A sign for something to come? http://www.airusersblog.com/home-page/2011/7/16/avid-talk-roadmaps-64-bit-is-this-a-change-of-heart.html
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I am not purchasing anything from AVID until 64-bit Pro Tools is finally out. I am so tired and aggravated every day when pro tools slams a message on my screen saying it does not have enough memory.
My computer currently has 24-gigs of DDR3 1333+ memory sticks and I can not use the entire lot.
So I am not purchasing anything at all from AVID until they release a 64-bit version of Pro Tools, and thats final.
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Dude chill out. They will come out with it. If you have been paying attention lately, PT10 is a stepping stone for it. They will need all the plug-in manufactures to make 64-bit plugs via AAX first and everyone needs to make sure to upgrade their systems first. There is nothing better to flip the switch on something and don't have anything compatible with it than to take your time and do it right the first time.
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It is quite simple. The RTAS/TDM structure does not allow 64bit. Therefore they created the AAX-plugin-format. When all companys followed the AAX path (e.g. Waves did not yet), RTAS/TDM can be retired and the software can come with 64bit. Pro Tools 11 is quite a probable candidate for 64Bit. Unfortunately it surely will cost another 200€ (native) / 900€(HD). That's the real mess with it...
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You're wrong. Although I would like to believe that as well, if it weren't possible for PT11 to be 64bit and support RTAS - how is it that Media Composer 6 is 64 bit AND SIMULTANEOUSLY supports 32 bit RTAS plugins. It is sad, but it seems Avid decided to basically choke everyone into upgrading to AAX so badly, they opted to make the shift AAX all the more dire.
It's pretty genius actually.
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If you had ever worked with MC or had someone that did work and actually knew what they were doing, you would know that MC is creating a virtual server where the plugins are run on a bit in the same way that you can use vst plugins through VEP while having them rewired into Pro tools. The rtas plugins are not ran inside of MC, but on a separate application that is bridged to MC. This has a lot of draw back and has been said to produce instability.
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You hit the nail right on the head! exactly!
Thanks for clarifying my point - if Avid wanted to make Pro Tools 10 64 bit, I imagine they well could have. Like any other decision, the benefits did not outweigh the risks (some of which you mention). They are a smart company and I respect the decision. Plenty of great records have been made with lesser software.
My only gripe is when people (or Avid) purport that it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to make PT10 64 bit while still keeping RTAS around during the transition. It would have been a struggle, for sure, but it is possible. They are dedicated to maintaining a stable product (which is why the similar but different decision with Media Composer is interesting) - which translates into Pro Tools 10 acting as a transitional version.
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You're confusing the issue at the moment. RTAS to MC was always an Add-on. MC was never made to work with RTAS and having to use a virtual server to run them was how they did it even when MC was 32 bit. Pro tools has the RTAS and TDM code imbedded into it. The two situation is completely dissimilar, while one was a work around (MC) the other is in it's genetic, and can't be moved forward until those codes are completely removed.
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Idea submitted 3 years ago and still no sign! Is this the most useless forum ever?
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